The topic comes up every once in a while for chess, is an organization that runs events for profit, or non for profit (NFP). Personally, I find the whole debate fruitless.
Generally, it is my experience that when someone is concerned with that question, they are asking because they believe that an NFP 1. Has lower profit margins and gives more back to the players, and 2. If they somehow do make a profit that it magically goes back and helps the community. As Todd Barre once said as ICA treasurer, "Just because it says Non-profit doesn't mean that we are trying to lose money".
NFPs that run tournaments have the same expenses as a FP group, they still have to pay rating fees, prize funds, TDs, site costs, advertising, etc. There is no guarantee that the money does anything more than go to the organizer. Conversely, I run my events for profit, and don't feel any need to apologize for it. I try to make sure that my tournaments run quickly, professionally, and that players have a pleasant experience. I put plenty of time into each event, not just at the site, but also before hand and afterwards (I am still doing the post work for the Colias). Some of the profits that I earn go towards donations to worthy chess causes, like schools and organizations. I am also putting together things like a free scholastic clinic, and of course the Colias Memorial tournament. I don't expect people to cry for me when I lose money, but I have to allow a profit to prepare for a losing event.
I was speaking with a professional player who was describing how most organizers have become mercenaries (which is pretty funny as most organizers feel that way about players). Ask a player how much money should go to the prize fund, and if they don't say all of it, 80% is expected. Sometimes this is realistic, other times it is not. For example, lets look at the upcoming Renaissance Knights Third Coast event. They have a $30 EF, and are basing a $700 prize fund on 40 players. If they reach their guarantee, players will get 58% of the entries back. If they only draw 20 players that number still remains about the same. Is that a reasonable profit? Players get to vote on that with their own $$.
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8 comments:
Chess organizers usually did a lot of hard work in the tournaments. They should get respect and good payment if possible. In this country, everybody has to know that you have to pay if you have been served by other people.
Japan and South Korea have set up very good examples. There are Go-chess clubs everywhere in their countries which make profit. For the Go-chess tournaments, the organizers could attract huge amount of financial support from the top companies in their country. The organizers convinces those companies that through Go-chess education and promotion towards the society, the society can send qualified white collar or blue collar workers continuously into these companies and thus make these companies more competent and
successful. This forms a very good cycle. But in US, companies like to support NBA or NFL, but not chess.
I couldn't agree with you more, Glenn.
I would only add one thing. Both NFPs and FPs have employees in some form or another. It's possible to have an NFP with an executive director who makes six figures annually. It's also possible to have an FP whose president makes a couple of thousand bucks a year--effectively a hobby that pays for itself, and sends home a bit of "egg money."
There's not a thing in the world wrong with an organizer making some bucks.
Other than prize funds, you can't know exactly where your entry fees are going unless you see the organizer's books. Any assumptions about NFP money going to good causes are just that--assumptions. It may be true. Or maybe not.
Players will vote for the tournaments they enjoy and give good value.
Yuan,
You raise some very good points. For a large tournament, it is not uncommon for an organizer to put in hundreds of hours for their event. Between site visits, site negotiations, putting together flyers and advertising, sometimes putting together a website, hiring TDs, answering player questions, setting up, tearing down, doing the finances, players only see the tip of the iceberg. If someone spends 200 hours putting together an event, that $2000 they may make doesn't sound so unreasonable when it comes to $10/hour.
What type of entry fees and prizes are common in Japanese and Korean events?
Glenn
Chess organizers should not feel any shame to make profit. First, they work hard to serve serious chess players, second, they help to promote chess to the society and thus contribute to the society, third, by intuition or simple math, everybody knows that chess tournament organizing is the least profitable job in the world.
At the same time, because of bad economics and high gas price, many chess parents are hindered to send their kids for the chess tournaments.
On way to solve this problem is to learn from some experience of the Asian countries, Japan, South Korea and China...... There are big enterprises and companies behind all the chess activities in these countries. For example, Illinois Chess Association could sell the title of Illinois State All Grade Championship to a big company. Suppose the company is Motorola and they kindly support 20 thousand dollar for the tournament.
20 thousand dollar means nothing for a big company compared with all the money they wasted on other places each year. But for the chess tournament, 20 thousand means everything. It can do the following things,
1. Make sure that hard working organizers and TDs get descent payments.
2. Set up prizes for the tournament winners and thus attract high rating players.
3. Lower down the tournament entry fee and thus relieve the burden of the chess parents and attract more players to join.
I know that different countries have different cultures and customs, this may not apply to USA, it is just for your reference.
r knights is a profit making machine that is out to make money especially from kids where they only have to give them trophies for winning
Is r knights really a none for profit ?. I think it is a money making machine for the owners.
This is my last comment on this issue, I promise,
for those hard working chess tournament organizers and chess club organizers, if they do their jobs in a professional, efficient and fair way, if they really care about children who are truly the future of USA, if they make this society a better society to live through promoting chess, as a chess parent, I sincerely wish that they could make profit today, to make profit tomorrow and to make profit
forever......
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Yuan,
Going for corporate sponsorship has been looked at by many individuals, in precisely the example you use. Unfortunately, here in the US it has failed miserably.
Jon,
I don't have a problem with any organizer making money. However, I do find the whole "wolf in sheep's clothing" thing where a NFP treads on their status as insincere.
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